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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
 Posted - 04/19/2007 : 6:11:55 PM
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In order for any particular certification to carry any kind of weight as intended – and the intention would be for our clients to find value in the cert – there would need to be a healthy & widespread endorsement from them. Lenders & settlement agents are the ones we aim to impress, and in my experience there is almost no recognition of any particular certification among those clients. (I say “almost” because I have only heard vender comments twice, and both times it was in praise of those certified by TSR.)
It is the lenders and settlement agents – our clients – who need to be brought into the drafting & modeling of the testing. By engaging them in the process and providing that kind of ‘ownership’ in the results, they would then be enabled to ENDORSE the certification, and it follows that they would support that endorsement by giving those NSA’s who hold that certification a level of distinction.
Comprehensive testing that attempts to measure a person’s combined acquired knowledge AND their ability to USE that knowledge through analytical/critical reasoning would need to incorporate ‘essay’ type Q & A’s. With all due respect to Linda – the comparison of the NSA certifications we have available to the testing methods used to become a doctor is ludicrous. As Charles points out, even the grueling methods used to measure a doctor’s knowledge don’t provide any absolutes in regards to their practical skills.
Until a wide selection of ‘top of the chain’ industry entities (such as national wholesale lenders, national settlement agencies – or better perhaps might be the MBA, ALTA, and other such entities) offer their public endorsement, the certifications available can’t hold the kind of weight that the NSA would like it to, and they remain more a marketing tool than anything else. By that I mean – if you’re on a listing that offers certification, then having that distinction is a means of giving at least the appearance of some added value. Not having that distinction on such a list, IMO, puts out the inaudible question of “why not?” in the mind of the client making choices off that list. That doesn’t mean the cert means much to them – only that not having it MIGHT give them some slight pause. On the other hand, there are those clients who might prefer an uncertified NSA – all other things often being equal, they perhaps assume a lesser fee will be agreed to with an uncertified person. All IMHO.
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n/a
California
3 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2007 : 2:19:58 PM
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I'm sorry but the only thing that a test measures is ones ability to learn the answers. Yes that is an important thing but the test assures nothing. If the test was an assurance of quality or competence we wouldn't need malpractice attorneys. Look at the notaries that testing produces, at least in California, there are tons of notaries who have learned the answers to the questions in a 4 hour cram course and then have no idea what they are doing. Certification for the most part is a joke!
Enabling lifestyles through property ownership |
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Shannon
California
360 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 11:21:10 AM
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Certainly I agree that there is some merit to certification. However, trying to measure that merit is a bit like trying to nail Jello to the wall. For example: the reason I attended the class in the first place was to keep my wife company. She wanted to get some insight into loan documents and she thought that this would be a good way to get an overview-and it was. I had already been a successful signing agent for some time and was more interested in philosophy about how to market my business better. Additionally, I wanted to see just what differences there were between my practice and that of this particular instructor. Let's just say that the day was indeed a learning experience and I believe that that was a good thing.
I don't believe that certification, like education of any kind, is a good measure of ability. It is simply "another" way of measuring ones abilities and certainly a way to judge their level of commitment to their occupation. To improve the validity of a certification, I have suggested a National Standard for both certification and background check that meets a high standard set by some form of agency (governmental, I don't know-but private certification makes me nervous). In our line of work we need a measurement that is of the highest ethical standard. I've suggested this in other posts and was nearly set on fire . I'm all for raising the bar...not lowering it to let in a few more wannabes. |
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lkassis
Iowa
60 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 10:50:15 AM
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Many good points have been made here.
For all times, a test has been a measure of one's abilities, of one's knowledge. In school they are required to prove abilities and knowledge. After high school it is our 'choice' to gain a higher education in which the tests to determine abilities and/or knowledge are a requirement but the education itself is a choice. Yes, as a signing agent I like those notches on my belt but only when I know that I truly have the knowledge to have passed the test. An incorrect test, however, is of no use. Being the owner of the Midwest Notary Association and soon to offer a Certification, I would certainly want someone to tell me if they found something incorrect within our Certification tests. Did anyone let Jeremy know about this? No one is perfect.
Many of you say Certifications are of no use. So, for every doctor, there is no need to have a testing requirement. They just need to know what they are doing and if they 'in their heart' know what they are doing, then there is no need for a Certificate or a Diploma or a Degree. Hardly. A medical institution may place weight on where that degree was earned as a determination of whether to hire or how much salary to offer but the doctor will only get one degree. That doctor had to make a life choice of which college would gain him the best monetary return for a lifetime. Yet when his name goes in the yellow pages, it goes in alphabetically by specialty. He did not gain placement in the yellow pages according to the amount he spent on his education or where he took it. However, the size of his ad will be according to what he paid for it. I in no way discredit Jeremy’s offering of ‘price gets you higher placement’, however, Certification in and of itself should only place you higher than those who are not. The weight a Certification holds will be in the eye of the beholder, companies. It is up to those of us offering the Certifications to show companies why those with our Certification should be the preferred.
A Certification is a marketing tool for who? Jeremy? 123? MWNA? etc.
If it is a marketing tool then there must be a demand for it. Is it not a marketing tool for the notary?
In Shannons post:
'He asked the class: "What is a Certified Loan Signing Agent?" I remember the class being slow to respond but finally someone said "A Notary Public" he smiled and said "My work is done here". In other words, certification really means very little. My instructor knew this, and I'm sure was smiling and laughing all the way to the bank (he filled 50 seats at $99 a head four times a month). The only thing his certification class did for me was give me some greater familiarity with loan documents that I wasn't required to have as a Notary. '
I cannot agree with this statement. You say the only thing his class did was give you a greater familiarity with loan documents that I wasn’t required to have as a Notary.
What is a Certified Loan Signing Agent? A Notary Public. Incorrect. If that were the case then yes, no company would care about any certification only a notary commission and neither would any signing agent, IMO. We would simply go out and point and sign. That is what a notary would do.
If you do not find a way to gauge yourself then how do you know what you do and don't know? Some are confident resourceful people who have learned through experience and research and don't need to test. Others have many varied reasons for considering becoming Certified. Some want the 'plaque on the wall' so to speak, others use it to gauge what they do know and what they have yet to learn, others use it as a marketing tool. To each his own. Similar to the companies we work with, some will place weight on a Certification and others will not. This is where those of us providing the Certification have to be certain they are of a high standard so that they mean something. Your state notarial laws are definitely the foundation by which a great signing agent is born. |
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Lee-AR
Arkansas
678 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 11:12:11 PM
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Any 'Certification' test that is to be used nationwide has to be so generic in scope as to be totally worthless as a means of determining anything more than very basic knowledge. If you must answer 'wrong' by your State laws in order to pass...???
Therefore, it's a marketing tool for the inexperienced Notary. Experience speaks for itself. |
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Shannon
California
360 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 08:43:30 AM
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By the way....for those of you who are 123 Notary Certified, I offer you preferred placement in my database if you want to take a moment to visit the NOTARIES page on my site and give me your info....for the occassional work I have outside my own coverage area, you are my preferred NSA's...fyi
WWW.AQUICKNOTE.NET |
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Shannon
California
360 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 01:15:32 AM
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I agree that "Certification" in and of itself means very little and is indeed a marketing tool. It may however, give the uninitiated a sense of comfort when selecting a notary. I, for example don't want a less qualified person (or more correctly, a less certified person) doing any type of service for me...I want the more certified one-this seems to be human nature. Perhaps my best example of this is what the instructor of a loan signing agent class illustrated for me when I took his class a long time ago. He asked the class: "What is a Certified Loan Signing Agent?" I remember the class being slow to respond but finally someone said "A Notary Public" he smiled and said "My work is done here". In other words, certification really means very little. My instructor knew this, and I'm sure was smiling and laughing all the way to the bank (he filled 50 seats at $99 a head four times a month). The only thing his certification class did for me was give me some greater familiarity with loan documents that I wasn't required to have as a Notary.
We each have to decide how to market ourselves. In most cases, people pay for these various cetifications. That shows average Joe that if nothing else we are serious about what we do and not just some Johnny Bananas company pretending to be a Notary. Many average Joes out there don't even know what a notary is-they just know they need one for some signature they need to get done. If Certification helps average Joe select me over someone not certified, then as a marketing tool, it has done its job.
Am I better than you because I'm Certified? I don't think so. Is my business doing better than yours? Perhaps. Will I attract clients faster than an uncertified NSA will? I believe definitely yes. |
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dfye@mcttelecom.com
New Hampshire
681 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2007 : 10:47:56 PM
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I still do not agree with certification. Who truly is capable of certifying and what are the qualifications of one who certifies? Where does the certifier come from and what makes them able to do such?
If you are knowledgeable, skilled, and experienced, I truly believe you do not need to be certified. You and only you are the one who is capable of knowing what your knowledge and abilities are and how you perform your duties as a witness.
While certification is mandated with some companies, I still believe you can perform without it. You may not get as much work in the beginning but in the end, your companies learn what you can do and how you do it. They make the ultimate decision as to whether or not to utilize you. I will continue to refuse to be certified with other companies. It may slow things down a little bit for me but business is still booming so I must be doing something right.
Legal Eagle Para Professional Services |
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dfye@mcttelecom.com
New Hampshire
681 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2007 : 10:27:47 PM
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I am on the opposite end of the rope with certifications. Consider me a radical on this one as I am totally against anyone else trying to get a piece of me. Not to mention I have terrible test anxiety.
I know my abilities and do not need a certification to prove it. However, in an effort to continue my relationship with the 123notary.com website, I have actually been certified.
Legal Eagle Para Professional Services |
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jfsobers
Louisiana
90 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2007 : 10:00:05 PM
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| The test has incorrect information. I was forced to answer that Louisiana is an attorney state (which it is not) in order to pass the test. In other questions, the answers are in direct contrast with Louisiana law. I am quite sure of my information. I was ignored... I put the answers required to pass the test and they were wrong... |
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2007 : 9:58:10 PM
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We just discussed this in our state network - the consensus among those that I've talked to about ANY cert test has been that it was obtained as a marketing tool more than an accurate measure of skill or knowledge. When it allows for a higher placement on a listing - all the more reason it becomes a marketing tool.
But again I ask the question - and THIS is being discussed by our state network as well - how does a Signing SERVICE obtain and advertise 123 certification??? Isn't that a misuse of the intention, as well as misleading in its advertising?
I would still like to know what the criteria are, because there remains the question as to whether state Networks might be better served by changing to a group listing, along the same lines as the services are doing - rather than individual & independent listings. How would the matter of certification be handled - as some (like myself) have 123 certification, but others do not.
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2007 : 3:48:04 PM
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| I am bringing up a controversial topic here but many people have such interesting things to say about the 123notary cert test. Some learned many useful things that have changed their career for the better. Others just hate the test and think its a waste of time. Please just voice your honest opinion and we'll respect how you feel!!! |
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123notary cert test - useful.. or aggravating?
