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joannieh
Michigan
40 Posts |
 Posted - 08/18/2012 : 11:13:10 PM
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I agree that following borrower and agency instructions are important. The problem I have is when the same company sends me three sets of instructions, all different. I used to work for LSI ALOT. Then one closing I received three sets of specific instructions. I called to find out what was up and told which set of instructions applied to my loan. So, there I go.
A few days after the docs were back at LSI I get a NASTY call for a "manager" who was a transplant from Fidelity. I didn't follow the instructions. I told her I had three sets of instructions and called to find out which set to follow. She only responded that if I did not want to follow their instructions they would no longer use me.
How the heck do you follow three sets of conflicting instructions? I mean PLEASE.
So, I still do closings for LSI but through signing companies. And I get paid more too.
I guess that's what's called Justice.....
Joannie |
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ollie
Florida
30 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2012 : 9:42:50 PM
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| It doesn't make any difference how redundant or inane the request is. As long as you uphold the laws of your state, your job is to follow instructions. If you want to write laws--become a lawyer. |
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edelske
New York
815 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2012 : 2:34:43 PM
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Of course there is a totally different approach to being a signing agent. You let the borrower do what they want, and you do whatever you want. Anything goes, they can make changes (try suggesting they lower the interest rate to save money) and just skip signing or initialing what they, or you, don’t like. Some agents find a sweat reeking fugitive from the gym laundry (a literal sweat shirt), speeds up the borrowers. The same agents with a virtuoso feat of dexterity pick their nose while making personal calls to pass the time of day. It’s really a matter of style.
Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com |
Edited by - edelske on 08/16/2012 10:06:03 AM |
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22459
California
48 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2012 : 11:18:44 AM
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If there is a place to initial, then you have them initial. It is NOT you place to tell anyone what should or should not be on docs. It is your job to follow the instructions given to you. It is extremely unprofessional to have argued with the "crazy" escrow person. I have been a notary for over 25 and was a co-owner of our family owned, independent escrow company which we opened in 1979, until having to close our doors in 2009. If it was my escrow, and you replied like that, I would have told you that the cost of having someone else get the initials, would be docked from your fee, and the company who sent you out will be made aware of your unprofessionalism. Like Ken, I have made minimal mistakes. Not because I'm so awesome but because I check & re-check to make sure everything is done properly so there are no problems. If you are not going to take your job as a notary public seriously, then get out of the business. You are giving us a bad name.
Teri W. |
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21692
Virginia
7 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2012 : 09:58:42 AM
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Well said Renee and I agree. Following the instructions, IMHO, is an important task of this business, whether it makes sense or not unless it is something not legal which I've read nothing to support that.
Whatever your thoughts may be, chalk it up as a lesson for future assignments because you will have plenty pages that will require initialing on signature pages.
quote:
Originally posted by Renee
To the OP:
The "crazy" escrow title person does not format the Promissory Note (or the Mtg/Dot, for that matter), the lender does. The lender puts the settlement agent under contract to have the documents executed exactly as the lender requires. Despite your claims to the contrary, escrow/settlement agents have no discretion over anything proprietary to the lender that they might deem 'illogical' (such as initialing a signature page) - nor do we. The lender tells settlement what to do with their documents & how to do it, and you in turn argue with the escrow agent over the finer mechanics of something they can't control?
To debate this issue with escrow is pointless & IMO unprofessional. Further, just because we might not see a reason for something doesn't mean there isn't one.
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Edited by - 21692 on 08/13/2012 09:59:17 AM |
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2012 : 04:28:23 AM
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To the OP:
The "crazy" escrow title person does not format the Promissory Note (or the Mtg/Dot, for that matter), the lender does. The lender puts the settlement agent under contract to have the documents executed exactly as the lender requires. Despite your claims to the contrary, escrow/settlement agents have no discretion over anything proprietary to the lender that they might deem 'illogical' (such as initialing a signature page) - nor do we. The lender tells settlement what to do with their documents & how to do it, and you in turn argue with the escrow agent over the finer mechanics of something they can't control?
To debate this issue with escrow is pointless & IMO unprofessional. Further, just because we might not see a reason for something doesn't mean there isn't one. |
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edelske
New York
815 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2012 : 1:20:21 PM
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Kenneth, you expect me to believe you've only missed two items in the past 12 years? Do you think this is reasonable? I don't mean to be disrespectful but I don't believe you.
As it is unlikely that you will be hiring me your beliefs are inconsequential to me.
Something's bound to slip by any human being who does masses of this kind of paperwork over 12 years time. LIkely what happened is they overlooked your missed initials for whatever reason.
Certainly a possibility
The issue is this: They made a mistake putting an initial slot on a blank page, including on the notary acknowledgment due to the way the form template was created without page format breaks in the footer. Some title companies correct the problem by not including an initial blank on the last page.
And some want the borrowers initials on the notary acknowledgement. What I don't understand is why you did not bring this "error" on THEIR part to their attention either before signing or when at the table?
Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com |
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notaryslife
California
348 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2012 : 1:17:09 PM
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Many title companies don't put an initial space on the last sig page seeing how signing the page is enough. If they choose to doc my pay for this I'd prefer not to work with such an escrow company and wish other agents much luck with this kind of inhuman mentality. I don't want to work for an escrow title company that looks for reasons to dock pay by setting up an agent this way with some silly issue. If you sign a page you shouldn't need to initial it and the borrower often deliberately leaves it blank because it is so silly to sign and initial a blank page.
quote:
Originally posted by LindaH
I can only speak from my own experience - if initial lines are present, then initials have been required, and yes, even on pages with signatures (mortgages come to mind more than notes). I agree with your logic - if page is signed then no initials should be necessary - but it's what they say about the Golden Rule - he who has the gold, rules. They contract us to do a job the way THEY want it, that's what must be done. I've found it's not worth arguing...the time spent arguing about it, the job/request could have been done. I, personally, would probably request at least a travel fee for this seemingly needless request though - especially since no notarization is required on the note and it's something they can do directly with the borrowers via overnight mail.
Ours is not to reason why - our is but to do or not get paid. But don't for a minute believe they backed down - they may send someone else out and dock your fee for it. Beware of this scenario..
Good Luck.
Linda
http://www.columbiacountynotary.webs.com
Sincerely yours,
Notary's Life |
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notaryslife
California
348 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2012 : 1:13:14 PM
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Kenneth, you expect me to believe you've only missed two items in the past 12 years? Do you think this is reasonable? I don't mean to be disrespectful but I don't believe you. Something's bound to slip by any human being who does masses of this kind of paperwork over 12 years time. LIkely what happened is they overlooked your missed initials for whatever reason.
The issue is this: They made a mistake putting an initial slot on a blank page, including on the notary acknowledgment due to the way the form template was created without page format breaks in the footer. Some title companies correct the problem by not including an initial blank on the last page.
quote:
Originally posted by edelske
quote:
Originally posted by LindaH
I can only speak from my own experience - if initial lines are present, then initials have been required, and yes, even on pages with signatures (mortgages come to mind more than notes). I agree with your logic - if page is signed then no initials should be necessary - but it's what they say about the Golden Rule - he who has the gold, rules. They contract us to do a job the way THEY want it, that's what must be done. I've found it's not worth arguing...the time spent arguing about it, the job/request could have been done. I, personally, would probably request at least a travel fee for this seemingly needless request though - especially since no notarization is required on the note and it's something they can do directly with the borrowers via overnight mail.
Ours is not to reason why - our is but to do or not get paid. But don't for a minute believe they backed down - they may send someone else out and dock your fee for it. Beware of this scenario..
Good Luck.
Linda
http://www.columbiacountynotary.webs.com
Disagree,
Most important point: It's an ERROR - a legal "requested" item was not completed.
Sub Points:
It's not for us to say what is "required".
We should not seek additional fees for correcting an error.
The only correct answer to the "you missed something" is to state that it will be fixed promptly and shipped at signing agent's expense.
These packages require dozens of entries; it's UNDERSTANDABLE how a tiny item is overlooked. Understandable but not forgivable. The best way to NOT make any errors is to have in mind a policy of rapid fix and paying for return shipment. The desire to avoid these situations will result in very careful checking that the package is perfect.
My personal policy is that ANY error or omission is a rush fix and prepaid ship. Has it happened to me? Sure, exactly twice over the past 12+ years and thousands of packages.
If someone can't totally guarantee their work (as described above) - they will be "passed over" by Title/Escrow/LO/SigningService etc., in favor of those who do.
The hiring party will be wondering if the "it's not needed" argument is a cover for missing the item at the table. They will wonder why the notary did not call for clarification (from the table) if they noticed AND felt the initial area improper. MOST of them are pretty sharp and understand how to read between the lines when notaries talk.
Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com
Sincerely yours,
Notary's Life |
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notaryslife
California
348 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2012 : 1:06:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by LindaH
I can only speak from my own experience - if initial lines are present, then initials have been required, and yes, even on pages with signatures (mortgages come to mind more than notes). I agree with your logic - if page is signed then no initials should be necessary - but it's what they say about the Golden Rule - he who has the gold, rules. They contract us to do a job the way THEY want it, that's what must be done. I've found it's not worth arguing...the time spent arguing about it, the job/request could have been done. I, personally, would probably request at least a travel fee for this seemingly needless request though - especially since no notarization is required on the note and it's something they can do directly with the borrowers via overnight mail.
Ours is not to reason why - our is but to do or not get paid. But don't for a minute believe they backed down - they may send someone else out and dock your fee for it. Beware of this scenario..
Good Luck.
Linda
http://www.columbiacountynotary.webs.com
Sincerely yours,
Notary's Life |
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edelske
New York
815 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2012 : 12:05:12 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by LindaH
I can only speak from my own experience - if initial lines are present, then initials have been required, and yes, even on pages with signatures (mortgages come to mind more than notes). I agree with your logic - if page is signed then no initials should be necessary - but it's what they say about the Golden Rule - he who has the gold, rules. They contract us to do a job the way THEY want it, that's what must be done. I've found it's not worth arguing...the time spent arguing about it, the job/request could have been done. I, personally, would probably request at least a travel fee for this seemingly needless request though - especially since no notarization is required on the note and it's something they can do directly with the borrowers via overnight mail.
Ours is not to reason why - our is but to do or not get paid. But don't for a minute believe they backed down - they may send someone else out and dock your fee for it. Beware of this scenario..
Good Luck.
Linda
http://www.columbiacountynotary.webs.com
Disagree,
Most important point: It's an ERROR - a legal "requested" item was not completed.
Sub Points:
It's not for us to say what is "required".
We should not seek additional fees for correcting an error.
The only correct answer to the "you missed something" is to state that it will be fixed promptly and shipped at signing agent's expense.
These packages require dozens of entries; it's UNDERSTANDABLE how a tiny item is overlooked. Understandable but not forgivable. The best way to NOT make any errors is to have in mind a policy of rapid fix and paying for return shipment. The desire to avoid these situations will result in very careful checking that the package is perfect.
My personal policy is that ANY error or omission is a rush fix and prepaid ship. Has it happened to me? Sure, exactly twice over the past 12+ years and thousands of packages.
If someone can't totally guarantee their work (as described above) - they will be "passed over" by Title/Escrow/LO/SigningService etc., in favor of those who do.
The hiring party will be wondering if the "it's not needed" argument is a cover for missing the item at the table. They will wonder why the notary did not call for clarification (from the table) if they noticed AND felt the initial area improper. MOST of them are pretty sharp and understand how to read between the lines when notaries talk.
Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com |
Edited by - edelske on 08/12/2012 12:44:31 PM |
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LindaH
Florida
1754 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2012 : 10:58:29 AM
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I can only speak from my own experience - if initial lines are present, then initials have been required, and yes, even on pages with signatures (mortgages come to mind more than notes). I agree with your logic - if page is signed then no initials should be necessary - but it's what they say about the Golden Rule - he who has the gold, rules. They contract us to do a job the way THEY want it, that's what must be done. I've found it's not worth arguing...the time spent arguing about it, the job/request could have been done. I, personally, would probably request at least a travel fee for this seemingly needless request though - especially since no notarization is required on the note and it's something they can do directly with the borrowers via overnight mail.
Ours is not to reason why - our is but to do or not get paid. But don't for a minute believe they backed down - they may send someone else out and dock your fee for it. Beware of this scenario..
Good Luck.
Linda
http://www.columbiacountynotary.webs.com |
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notaryslife
California
348 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2012 : 10:32:30 AM
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I had one of those crazy escrow title people request I return to the borrower over a missed initial on a Promissory Note on a signature page that had no text on it. The person emailed me asking me to have the sig page initialed and I responded, are you serious?
After I pointed out there was no text on the page to initial over, they said it didn't matter, they wanted it initialed. I let the person know the purpose of initials is to confirm the page has been acknowledged being read. Since there was no contract language on the page whatsoever, and it was signed as the sig page, initialing it was unnecessary regardless the document template had an initial line.
I wrote the escrow title person that human beings aren't machines and that many of us think about the reason we do things and in that case it was clearly an issue with the document template not correcting the initial line when there was no text on the page.
The escrow agent backed down but I thought they were really like a machine to be taking issue with it, that they had no ability to do anything then see an initial was missing on a blank. Was it necessary? Did I really need to return to the borrower?
Sincerely yours,
Notary's Life |
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Return to Borrower 4 Missed Initials on Sig Page?
