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 That pesky CA 'under penalty of perjury' clause
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New York
815 Posts

Posted - 12/25/2010 :  4:48:49 PM  Show Profile  Visit edelske's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I just strike and initial the "California" and write in "New York". Never had a problem - done that dozens of times. The one time I was asked about the change I simply told them that I am subject to NY laws as the notarization took place in NY. I then ask them if they have any issue with my changing the preprinted venue to correct values in the notary section. Usual response: "Ohhh, I see, now it's consistent!"

Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
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549 Posts

Posted - 12/24/2010 :  03:11:45 AM  Show Profile  Visit Renee's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Like Paul, I don't have an issue with the "perjury" part of the CA certificates - and the fact that a citing of any applicable law isn't actually written into a cert doesn't negate the law. (MI perjury law follows below - essentially the same as CA.)

What concerns me is the "...under the laws of California" part. It might well be that my concern is unfounded, as I said the laws are essentially the same as MI (and most likely w/other states - I'd gamble ALL states have perjury laws, and how different can they be?) - my concern is in the 'what if' category.

Anyone can file suit against anyone else - just because I might know I'd not commit perjury doesn't prevent anyone from making an accusation. Were I to be drawn into a lawsuit, I worry that if I commit to the laws of CA specifically, I might find myself facing an unplanned 'vacation' to the Left Coast just to defend myself. Again, might be totally unwarranted to worry about, but I'm not comfortable inviting that kind of trouble. I agree with Linda on that.

I think maybe Lee's point was possibly misunderstood by Shannon & Diana? The issue was with lender's and title agents requiring OUT of state notaries to place themselves under the laws of CA. When faced with these CA certs, I leave the "under penalty of perjury" (since I AM bound by perjury laws, just as CA notaries and likely most other state's notaries) but I strike the reference to CA law, and put "MI".

Act 328 of 1931

750.423 Definition.

Sec. 423.
Definition—Any person authorized by any statute of this state to take an oath, or any person of whom an oath shall be required by law, who shall wilfully swear falsely, in regard to any matter or thing, respecting which such oath is authorized or required, shall be guilty of perjury, a felony, punishable by imprisonment in the state prison not more than 15 years.

750.424 Subornation of perjury.

Sec. 424.

Subornation of perjury - Any person who shall be guilty of subornation of perjury, by procuring another person to commit the crime of perjury, shall be punished as provided in the next preceding section.

750.425 Inciting or procuring one to commit perjury.

Sec. 425.

Inciting or procuring one to commit perjury —Any person who shall endeavor to incite or procure any person to commit the crime of perjury, though no perjury be committed, shall be guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment in the state prison not more than 5 years

Edited by - Renee on 12/24/2010 03:18:06 AM
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171 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2010 :  3:18:16 PM  Show Profile  Visit DianaNotary's Homepage  Reply with Quote
yep, some folks are still using the incorrect notary wording.
I carry jurat stamp and have some pre-printed labels with the jurat and acknowledgement wording, so if I have out of state or incorrect phrased notary wording, I just strike a line through and use my own tools to make it California compliant.

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360 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2010 :  10:15:28 AM  Show Profile  Visit Shannon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Being as we are nearly 3 years into this law, I'm still amazed at the number of lenders who haven't gotten the memo and continue to provide documents that have non-compliant wording.

I find myself constantly having to write the words: "Please see attached California compliant acknowledgment (or jurat). Then I have to produce a loose certificate for compliance.

I sometimes wonder if other California notaries are performing their duty correctly or simply signing and stamping documents with non-compliant wording. To my understanding of the law, documents signed and stamped without the correct wording are not lawfully notarized.

"A Quick Note"
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360 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2010 :  10:05:59 AM  Show Profile  Visit Shannon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Not merely a pesky clause.

Since January of 2008, it's the law.

A California Notaries burden is significantly greater than in many other places in the U.S.

I always advise folks to hire a professional. When I see soccer mom's (and dads) taking a Notary Class just for "fun" I cringe. Even if the public doesn't take the position of Notary Public seriously, a California Notary must!

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469 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2010 :  05:58:14 AM  Show Profile  Visit PWinFL's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It's never bother me to have that clause in the notarial certificate. Granted, it's not a required element, under FL law, but it certainly isn't necessary to cross it out either. (See F.S. 92.525 Verification of documents; perjury by false written declaration, penalty.)

Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.

I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida,
and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.

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1754 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2010 :  05:37:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I line through that wording and initial also - it's not an element of FL acknowledgements.

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678 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2010 :  05:28:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That many TCs seem to just stick in an Acknowledgement even tho' the notarization does not take place in California....the only state that requires this clause! I cross it out and initial. If some TC thinks it should be included, below--in great detail--is the solution:

The CA ‘under penalty of perjury’ clause is not applicable in my state as (fill in your State) has no such law/statute/code. For those who think it should be completed—disregarding (your State) law, I refer you to the following authorities:

Excerpt from the United States Constitution:
Article 4, Section 1

Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records,and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.


California’s own Law on the subject of out-of-state notarization.
(2) (b) Note italicized & boldfaced portion:
Civil Code § 1189.
(a) (1) Any certificate of acknowledgment taken within this state shall be in the following form:
State of California
County of __________

On ______________________________________________ before me,
(here insert name and title of the officer) ,
personally appeared __________________________________ _ , who proved to me on the basis of satisfactory evidence to be the person(s) whose name(s) is/are subscribed to the within instrument and acknowledged to me that he/she/they executed the same in his/her/their authorized capacity(ies), and that by his/her/their signature(s) on the instrument the person(s), or the entity upon behalf of which the person(s) acted, executed the instrument.
I certify under PENALTY OF PERJURY under the laws of the State of California that the foregoing paragraph is true and correct.

WITNESS my hand and official seal.
Signature ____________________________________________ (Seal)

(2) A notary public who willfully states as true any material fact that he or she knows to be false shall be subject to a civil penalty not exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000). An action to impose a civil penalty under this subdivision may be brought by the Secretary of State in an administrative proceeding or any public prosecutor in superior court, and shall be enforced as a civil judgment. A public prosecutor shall inform the secretary of any civil penalty imposed under this section.

(b) Any certificate of acknowledgment taken in another place shall be sufficient in this state if it is taken in accordance with the laws of the place where the acknowledgment is made.

(c) On documents to be filed in another state or jurisdiction of the United States, a California notary public may complete any acknowledgment form as may be required in that other state or jurisdiction on a document, provided the form does not require the notary to determine or certify that the signer holds a particular representative capacity or to make other determinations and certifications not allowed by California law.

(d) An acknowledgment provided prior to January 1, 1993, and conforming to applicable provisions of former Sections 1189, 1190, 1190a, 1190.1, 1191, and 1192, as repealed by Chapter 335 of the Statutes of 1990, shall have the same force and effect as if those sections had not been repealed.

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