Enter Zip, City, or County... i.e. orange,NY or 90019
Search Method:    regular time edocs
Mobile Notary / Signing Agent Discussion ForumDear Signing Agents,
You need to REGISTER and have a password to post or reply to discussion topics. Please remember, your password for your listing on 123notary.com is NOT RELATED to and is different from your password on the forum. Your password on the forum can be whatever you want it to be.
Lookup a specific signing company, word, or phrase
Mobile Notary / Signing Agent Discussion Forum
Register | String Format | Index Format | Active Topics | Hot Topics | Preview Topics | Advanced Search | Members | Profile | Tutorial | FAQ
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 The 123notary.com Forum for Signing Agents
 Technical & Marketing Issues
 Being asked to backdate
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
1 -1 1 person liked this post.
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  


10 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2008 :  6:35:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Maria, the proper place to report them would be to your state's Department of Insurance. It may be called something else where you live, but whoever governs insurance companies in your state would be the proper authority.

As time goes by you learn a lot about real estate, deeds, title, etc. from working in this industry and you learn to detect if there is a problem with a doc.

As a professional courtesy I always make every effort to make the signing/title company aware of any problems I see, however, I do not take responsibility for the condition of docs they send out.

Unless you've gone to school for real estate or have worked in title/escrow there is no way for you to know what is recordable or not. As a notary or a signing agent it's not your call.

The title company should have checked the soundness of recordability of those docs BEFORE they ever reached you and they should have an after hours/weekend person who can answer emergency calls if they're going to schedule signings outside their normal business hours.

The signing company should also have checked to make sure everything was kosher BEFORE the docs reached you.

There are a lot of people in the industry trying to dump their unprofessionalism and poor practices onto notaries. Do not take the responsibility onto yourself.

I would have called and left a voice mail to cover myself, noted the document's condition in my journal, and executed the doc. It is what it is.

When you get into using white out, retyping docs, or altering docs, other than the notarial section, you are drawing up a legal document. Yes, it would be a copy of what was already sent to you, but it is still considered 'preparing' a legal document for execution. I would never do it.

We do a lot to keep our customer's happy and we should. However, there is a line that notaries, signing agents or not, should never cross.

I do hope you file a complaint and cross these people off your list. There's a lot we put up with to earn our fees, but sometimes it's better to disassociate with unprofessional companies. Not worth the headaches.

Edited by - CinOh on 11/03/2008 6:37:21 PM
Go to Top of Page


1754 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2008 :  5:38:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by KanDoNotary

As I understood the original question regarding backdating, I don't feel witnessing the second, clear copy of the QCD as a new document, assuming there were no changes other than clean up done. Therefore, because I had completed the rest of the package on a date certain, and was only "cleaning up" on a document for recordability, the date I had originally witnessed would be appropriate, and not back dating.

Have Seal, Kan Travel!

Then in FL you'd be wrong. Notarizations are dated the date they're signed...period. I don't care if you're correcting a mistake that you or someone else made or if you're "cleaning up a prior act"...if they re-sign it in front of you on Tuesday, 11/4 and you have to notarize that new document they're signing on Tuesday, then your notarization better be dated 11/4/08.

Go to Top of Page


69 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2008 :  12:12:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit KanDoNotary's Homepage  Reply with Quote
As I understood the original question regarding backdating, I don't feel witnessing the second, clear copy of the QCD as a new document, assuming there were no changes other than clean up done. Therefore, because I had completed the rest of the package on a date certain, and was only "cleaning up" on a document for recordability, the date I had originally witnessed would be appropriate, and not back dating.

Have Seal, Kan Travel!
Go to Top of Page


549 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2008 :  02:24:33 AM  Show Profile  Visit Renee's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Linda & Kathy - definitely I agree that of all the ways possible to fix the doc, re-typing isn't something anyone should do unless they feel both wholly capable and entirely comfortable. Some QCD's are so brief - a few sentences at most, but then you have those with 5 paragraphs that could be a bit daunting. Still, I don't feel that making a verbatim copy is originating, preparing, or practicing law because copying requires no decision-making, whereas the other actions do.

But - there's still other less engaging ways of fixing the situation.
Go to Top of Page


89 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2008 :  07:47:06 AM  Show Profile  Visit azdocsign's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I agree it is our responsibility to know that a too small font size might not be recordable. Check with your Secretary of State to see the requirements for your state. I too, would never re-type a document nor change it in any way with the exception of trying to correct it in the print process. The liability is just too high here and it is UPL to prepare or change a document except in the notarial certificate.

I would have tried to contact the loan officer for direction. This way the final decision would not be mine. I would respond to the email that contained the document right away explaining the issue. I would have contacted the signing agency/title company as soon as one was open so I could fax the document either before sending or ASAP before the package was received.

Good Luck

Kathy Fletcher

Edited by - azdocsign on 11/01/2008 07:49:51 AM
Go to Top of Page


1754 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2008 :  06:54:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Renee, although I do agree with you that an attempt should be made to salvage the document, and I do agree that the original poster should have known there'd be a problem with the one she had, I would personally draw the line at anything beyond enlarging, cleaning up and re-copying. IMO it's beyond the scope of the signing agent's responsibility to re-type the entire document as you suggested. That's entirely up to title to correct or re-scan and send a cleaner version.

Since we in FL are not allowed to originate documents, it may not be considered true UPL but it most definitely is outside what we are authorized to do - we are signing agents, not document processors, and one error in the re-typing can create an entirely new set of problems - although I, personally, through experience, would be able to do this accurately, it's not something I would do simply because it's not my part in the equation...MHO

Go to Top of Page


549 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2008 :  03:57:30 AM  Show Profile  Visit Renee's Homepage  Reply with Quote
1. Zoom to enlarge text, print, then clean w/white-out, re-print (so no white-out is on original to be signed).

2. Use a text extractor, if it will extract

3. Re-type a new original, verbatim (Please don't use the UPL call on this, this is basic data-entry.)

4. (easiest/quickest) use a separate page & attach the cert, and leave the reprint/re-sign to title agent. (Yes, I do KNOW they'll reprint, have it signed and use my cert - that's their option/action.)

Understanding that a QC is either adding or removing someone from title, if the QC is not recordable - it may as well not exist. The loan /mtg is based upon the action of the QC - w/out the QC, the loan/mtg is not valid. If the QC has to be redone & notarized, it would change the DATE, and if the date is AFTER the mortgage ... no go.

My main point here is this - if we as NSA's really want to be a valued industry, we need to get this act together and provide the services we claim to be able to. If the title/lending industry faces nothing but headaches, complaints about things that are inherent to the job, etc - what is their incentive to USE us?

I'm not (really) picking on you personally, Maria - but I'm speaking bluntly for the salvation of a job that I absolutely love, consider my qualifications as very hard earned, and my fees well deserved.
Go to Top of Page


35 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2008 :  2:23:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit LeapFrog's Homepage  Reply with Quote
...I can think of about 4 different ways I could've (and WOULD have) fixed that doc...

Could you elaborate on those 4 ways, Renee? If it's a bad copy, it is what it is.


Go to Top of Page


549 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2008 :  03:37:43 AM  Show Profile  Visit Renee's Homepage  Reply with Quote
While I don't condone the request to backdate (and I simply say no), I'm disappointed that my colleagues aren't pointing out the cause of this whole scenario being something a signing agent SHOULD have known how to deal with.

Yes, it IS your job to know if a deed is recordable, IMHO. You're advertising yourself as an experienced loan signing agent, and as such you should've known how to remedy this. Had this been my signing, that Deed would've been rendered recordable. It IS my job to know that if it were NOT fixed, it would negate the entire loan and caused a re-draw.

I can think of about 4 different ways I could've (and WOULD have) fixed that doc - but my point is that of all the fingers being pointed at all the OTHER people for so many failings, not a single finger is being pointed back at the cause of the problem.

If you just want to be a notary, don't advertise as an experienced loan signer - and if you want to BE a loan signer, then you need to accept the increased responsibilites of that position.

I'm sure this won't be an opinion many will find savory, and I truly don't wish to sound unkind, but our industry NEEDS everyone to better themselves, increase their skills and knowledge or we will see our industry fall away.
Go to Top of Page


North Carolina
3 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2008 :  6:36:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would contact the Sec of State and report the company

Go to Top of Page


553 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2008 :  5:59:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would report them. Where I am not sure. Maybe some of our members will chime in here. I am going ot do a little research and see what I can find out. This kind of stuff needs to stop.This is one of the reasons why our economy is in the state that it is in. They should be ashamed of themselves. How dare them blame you form something that they sent.


Go to Top of Page


18 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2008 :  12:46:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit amsigning's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Is this company based out of Cincinnati, Ohio are near there? If so, let me know so I can post you a situtation our company had with them.

Go to Top of Page


38 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2008 :  8:09:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Must be something in the water this month. Had a company ask me to back date as well. And read a few posts from others that were asked recently also. The sad thing is, that for some reason, they will find someone to back date for them and neither will probably suffer any reprecussions.

James Coda
Go to Top of Page


42 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2008 :  3:07:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I did a signing on Sat that contained a quit-claim deed. The condition of the deed emailed to me was poor - small type and spots all over it. Who am I to complain? So, I executed the document. I got a call today from PREMIER TITLE AND ESCROW and said the condition of the deed was unacceptable. I explained to them that that was the way it was sent to me and there was nothing I could have done about it on a Saturday. They argued that it wasn't sent to me that way! The signing company that hired me agreed that I couldn't have done anything with it and offered to pay me to go back out and execute a new one. In the meantime, the post-closing supervisor at Premier, Gail, basically told me that I didn't know what I was doing because "anyone who knows the real estate business knows that a deed can't be recorded like that." Well, as a notary, I didn't realize I was supposed to know everyone's job in the business! If they sent it to me that way, I figured, it's their job, they must know what they are doing!

The signing company asked me to go out and execute a new one today but that I would have to back-date it for Saturday. I told them that that was illegal and I would not do it and so as a result, the title company told her they didnt want me to do anymore of their work.

I want to report them for asking me to do something illegal but I don't know where to go. Do you?

  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:

Mobile Notary / Signing Agent Discussion Forum © 123notary.com Go To Top Of Page

Tips for using the forum
The most important feature on the forum is the search box. You can look up a particular word, phrase, name of a company, and see a potentially large list of search results with which you can obtain data. Filters are also valuable. If you want to find popular posts, you can use the number of views filter. You can also see whats new with the active topics link. Email us at info@123notary.com if you need any help using the notary forum.

The notary public resource page is valuable as it has links to all of the free information pages for notaries. Pages linked to the resource page include a page that teaches you everything you need to know to get the most out of your listing. Another page teaches you all the secrets of getting paid. There is a link to our free list of signing companies. There is also a glossary, learning tools, and much more. If you are a notary, the free tips we give are invaluable.

Popular pages
If you visit 123notary.com often, you might want to visit some of our most popular pages such as the California notary, Texas notary, Florida notary, and New York notary pages to browse the site. We also have valuable pages for notaries such as the free list of signing companies, and the resource page. Please also visit our get notarized and notarized letter page.