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 Should you report a notary if...
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Joan

California
10 Posts

Posted - 05/16/2012 :  5:17:52 PM  Show Profile  Visit Joan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
To Notaryslife......It is now illegal in California not to staple the loose certificate to the document, whether Title likes it or not. Please go to the SOS site and read the newsletter for 2012.

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edelske

New York
742 Posts

Posted - 05/16/2012 :  1:04:18 PM  Show Profile  Visit edelske's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dionaea

As far as title companies unstapling a certificate attached to a document, I feel confident it is done so they can either photocopy or scan the document package into their records, such as on microfiche.
As for loose jurats and acknowledgments, I make sure they contain an accurate reference to the specific document they go with.
Having been trained by attorneys, I always cross out the terms that do not match the party or parties signing, i.e. one male signing means drawing a single line through "she" and "they" in "he/she/they". It's just poor practice not to do this easy task at the closing table, IMHO.





Those "cross outs" are a little tougher in New York City. Not being a medical doctor; it's sometimes difficult for me to determine the gender of the person signing. I hesitate to ask "Are you male or female"? I certainly would not, nor am I qualified; to perform a detailed examination. It's not easy to obey the rules, and not offend the clients. Either the world has gotten more complex, or my eyesight is failing - probably both.

Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com
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notaryslife

California
348 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2012 :  5:09:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When I began as a notary I had a similar attitude of being appalled at other notaries' practice. After a while you realize it's really not up to you to be policing other notaries except if it is outright fraud and using an expired commission.

I reported a few notaries over the years who were seriously bad doing multiple things wrong, such as one at a UPS store I went to. I recently went back to learn she is no longer a notary, for good reason.

However, I strongly disagree with reporting notaries for such things as not filling out the particular section correctly, such as only circling rather than crossing out items. It is not unlawful to fail to do this, at least in the State of California. Reporting this would make you look like a real spiteful vengeful person attempting to harm your competition. If you really feel strongly about it, I would simply ask the notary why they're not doing the particulars correctly instead of coming across like a petty minded person out to enforce laws. If you are too much of a coward to ask the notary yourself, don't make an ass of yourself "reporting" them to the title company.

It is really none of your business to be nit picking like a bitter old lady with too much time on one's hands, you are not an enforcer of laws unless there is a crime involved. It's not criminal to not use cross outs on particular statements!! Please cite one case in which a notary was prosecuted for this before you claim it is unlawful.

So that's my two cents. Too many notaries on these forums really are out of hand acting like they're enforcers of the law. It's quite pathetic in my opinion they have nothing better to do with their time then behave as if they're the Secretary of State.





Sincerely yours,


Notary's Life
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notaryslife

California
348 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2012 :  4:47:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi again Jeremy: About the part where you claim the notary has to fill out the description of the document, that isn't a legal requirement in California. I usually fill it in when there are extremely important documents such as deeds and POA's. They use the unstapled method to determine if the notarization was tampered with, at least in California. People are instructed not to unstaple the document or it will invalidate the document.

Sincerely yours,


Notary's Life
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notaryslife

California
348 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2012 :  4:36:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Jeremy, the lady who teaches in San Francisco for NotaryClasses.com tells the class it is unnecessary to do anything but circle the correct particular rather than going through and including cross outs. I'm not saying it's right, but most notaries don't seem to care about these nit picking things including giving the oath for a Jurat. Every single time I give an oath people tell me the other notaries never do such a thing in California. I've also experienced many good experienced notaries never issue me the oath either.

Even a partner attorney at a major law firm complained to me about putting her under oath for a Jurat. When I suggested it is a punishable offense in California not to do so and that a notary can face imprisonment for it she responded "I don't think so."


quote:
Originally posted by jbelmont

There are situations where notaries work on a job, that another notary has worked on before.

Expired stamp
If you see that a notary is doing work with an expired stamp, that is cause for concern. Obviously, you should check the date of the notarization against the expiration date of their seal. It is illegal in any state to use an expired seal. It might be a misdemeanor or worse!

In any case, you should report such a notary to their state's secretary of state or notary division (most states unify these two departments).

Incomplete wording?
Many notaries do not understand that they have to cross out the appropriate terms in parentheses or where the forward slashes are in the notary wording... i.e. he/she/they, signature(s), etc. More than half of notaries do not do any of the required cross outs, and this is neglegent and perhaps illegal in their state. You can consider reporting such a notary. Perhaps they need to be re-educated.

Failure to ATTACH?
According to California notary law (not sure about the other states), you need to attach the certificate to the document. This means staple away! I'm not sure if it is illegal for another individual to unstaple the certificate after the fact, but it looks very questionable (every title company unstapled my work which looks criminal to me -- arrest them!!!). Look up the attachment rule in your state, and then report notaries who don't do this. Nothing is worse than a filled out and stamped LOOSE acknowledgment form. It can easily be used for fraud, and sometimes is! Stay out of trouble, and keep others out of trouble too.

Failure to describe the document
If the acknowledgment form doesn't accurately describe the name, type, description, number of pages, document date, etc. of the document it is attached to, it could be reattached to some other document. If the document description is completely blank -- you should report that notary. If they did a half-brained job, then at least they tried, right?



Sincerely yours,


Notary's Life
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Dannotary

California
175 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2012 :  07:43:12 AM  Show Profile  Visit Dannotary's Homepage  Reply with Quote
On split signings where I see the previous notary has made lots of mistakes, I will let title know in advance so they can start dealing with it and fax them the pages that pertain and possibly prevent a delay in the close.
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notaryslife

California
348 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2012 :  6:12:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the tips Jeremy. Show me a LSA who staples their refinance docs and I'll show you someone in need of signing work. I used to staple the docs and lost big accounts. The majority of LSA's don't staple refinance docs because the title companies have to scan and copy them.

When the title company has to unstaple the docs in order to copy them (and they definitely will be copying them for their digital file records) it would undo the notarization by law.

Sincerely yours,


Notary's Life
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notaryslife

California
348 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2012 :  6:09:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I stopped crossing out and only circling at the suggestion of a NotaryClasses.com instructor.

Sincerely yours,


Notary's Life
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dionaea

Tennessee
21 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2012 :  07:04:24 AM  Show Profile  Visit dionaea's Homepage  Reply with Quote
As far as title companies unstapling a certificate attached to a document, I feel confident it is done so they can either photocopy or scan the document package into their records, such as on microfiche.
As for loose jurats and acknowledgments, I make sure they contain an accurate reference to the specific document they go with.
Having been trained by attorneys, I always cross out the terms that do not match the party or parties signing, i.e. one male signing means drawing a single line through "she" and "they" in "he/she/they". It's just poor practice not to do this easy task at the closing table, IMHO.

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Dannotary

California
175 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2012 :  12:18:19 PM  Show Profile  Visit Dannotary's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I get calls to do go-overs or corrections or split signings. It is amusing to see how many notaries do an incomplete job, signed and initialed wrong, ack not complete, different colors of ink etc.
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jbelmont

California
2611 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2012 :  1:33:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit jbelmont's Homepage  Reply with Quote
There are situations where notaries work on a job, that another notary has worked on before.

Expired stamp
If you see that a notary is doing work with an expired stamp, that is cause for concern. Obviously, you should check the date of the notarization against the expiration date of their seal. It is illegal in any state to use an expired seal. It might be a misdemeanor or worse!

In any case, you should report such a notary to their state's secretary of state or notary division (most states unify these two departments).

Incomplete wording?
Many notaries do not understand that they have to cross out the appropriate terms in parentheses or where the forward slashes are in the notary wording... i.e. he/she/they, signature(s), etc. More than half of notaries do not do any of the required cross outs, and this is neglegent and perhaps illegal in their state. You can consider reporting such a notary. Perhaps they need to be re-educated.

Failure to ATTACH?
According to California notary law (not sure about the other states), you need to attach the certificate to the document. This means staple away! I'm not sure if it is illegal for another individual to unstaple the certificate after the fact, but it looks very questionable (every title company unstapled my work which looks criminal to me -- arrest them!!!). Look up the attachment rule in your state, and then report notaries who don't do this. Nothing is worse than a filled out and stamped LOOSE acknowledgment form. It can easily be used for fraud, and sometimes is! Stay out of trouble, and keep others out of trouble too.

Failure to describe the document
If the acknowledgment form doesn't accurately describe the name, type, description, number of pages, document date, etc. of the document it is attached to, it could be reattached to some other document. If the document description is completely blank -- you should report that notary. If they did a half-brained job, then at least they tried, right?
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