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lightk
Alabama
32 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2009 : 08:22:27 AM
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well, I'm one of those that gives someone a chance before blacking them off my list.
Wish I would've read and paid attention.
Did 2 modifications. One hasn't been paid for -- the other check bounced.
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CopperheadVA
Virginia
270 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2009 : 04:58:20 AM
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Try filing a report with the CA Dept of Real Estate, CA Secretary of State, and the FBI: http://www.fbi.gov/majcases/fraud/internetschemes.htm
Some notaries have had success using these avenues. I've never worked for 21st Century - came close early when they came on the scene, but thankfully did not end up working for them!
CopperheadVA
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stephenalane
North Carolina
7 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2009 : 4:19:37 PM
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Your company is a FRAUD! Trying PAYING the notaries who have been kind enough to take the assignments. I performed 4 signings EXACTLY as directed (checks and all) prior to finding this and other threads about this company... then received 2 (TWO) bad checks for the first two signings... Then after continued (three weeks worth of calls, emails and faxing) what do I get? One check for only ONE of the bounced checks. Weeks 4 and 5 are here now and I am STILL trying to collect the second bad check. Not even counting the last two that I still have NOT even been paid for!
quote: Originally posted by 21stCenturyLS_CustomerSer
For some one who has only dealt with our company since this past weekend, you know us with great certainty.
As for the Better Business Bureau we are addressing the few complaints lodged against us.
Ripoffreport has no mechanism for us to resolve complaints and as we have over 1,500 active files and growing, we have precious little time to devote to seriously address what boils down to name calling and innuendo. We are busy SAVING PEOPLES HOMES!
Which is why I find your remarks off for some one who is supposed to maintain the utmost integrity and honesty.
We have turned to notaries to represent us for those vary reasons. We are sending strangers to our clients homes. We count on that integrity and honesty to protect our clients and our business.
I suspect you are no Notary.
quote: Originally posted by VEstridge
I got a call from this company this past weekend and since they are new to me I googled them and was surprised that Notaries are actually working for them. I found that this company has a rating of "F" with the Better Business Bureau and is listed on Ripoffreport.com as a fradulent company. They are NOT a legal firm. There are no guarantees that they could help these homeowners modify their loans and do not offer money back if they cannot help them. They wanted me to act as a "Representative" for their company and told me that I would not be notarizing one single document. To be put on their list for future modification jobs in my area they wanted my drivers license, social security card, Notary Certification and a few other docuements confirming my identity. That right there raised a red flag...If I'm not notarizing any documents, why do they need all this information on me? Who is to say they won't use my information to steal my identity or have me hauled into court when someone sues them! No thank you!!!! Knowing all of this after I accepted the modification job, I called them back and asked them to remove me from their list. As a notary public commissioned by my state, I am considered the front liner in detecting fraud. There is no way I would put myself, my notary licensing or reputation on the line to earn a few bucks stealing from homeowners that are already struggling. SHAME ON THIS COMPANY AND SHAME ON ANYONE WHO ACCEPTS WORK FROM THEM KNOWING THIS INFORMATION
Customer Services 21st Century Legal Services
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Edited by - stephenalane on 07/06/2009 4:22:22 PM |
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stephenalane
North Carolina
7 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2009 : 4:02:25 PM
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STAY AWAY! FRAUD! When and IF they pay you, it will be with a bad check. Good luck getting them to issue one that isn't made of 100% pure rubber! They ignore my calls, emails and fax messages regarding bad checks and apparently refuse to make good on them.
NOTARY BEWARE!
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DanD
California
6 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2009 : 1:12:22 PM
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| I too, had two calls from them. I was not aware of their practices at the time so I took the jobs. Both calls came within 30 minutes of eachother. I called the clients and told them who I was and that I needed to schedule an appointment with them. BOTH clients told me that neither one of them had been contacted by 21st. I told them to contact them to find out what was going on. Obviously I never made a call to either home. I also tried to contact 21st at least 17 times and they never called me back. However they were willing to always take a message. Totally ridiculous! |
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Deborah Bond
Massachusetts
56 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2009 : 10:09:09 PM
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I will not be doing anymore with them. 6 attempts three completed in 5 months. I have been paid for all that I made the trips on....and have asked them to remove me from their call listing.
Deborah Bond... Notary Public Eastern Massachusetts |
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LIZBETH
Florida
19 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2009 : 10:47:48 AM
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I did one for this company, and picked up checks. My client thought he did not have to pay the mortgage anymore. I was paid promptly. However, after thinking it over, and reading the forums, I refuse them now. They call often, even later in the evening like 9-10 PM. I explained why I won't do it. I was told the fees are for the lawyers. I hope someone addresses the problem with this company soon.
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lizcook
Michigan
4 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2009 : 2:23:34 PM
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I agree they are scammers, I had a very similar situation as all of you and have never taken another job from them. Absolutley sickening that they are doing this to people who have enough on their plate to worry about.
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Stamper
North Carolina
17 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2009 : 06:31:12 AM
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Hi qjk,
You do have a point that there are some deals that are bad for the borrowers, but that doesn't make all bad deals equal.
What is different about what 21st Century is that they prey on families who are on the verge of losing their home, gain their confidence, and the victims send in thousands of dollars. Then, from what I have seen on the Internet, 21st Century takes the last of their money and pushes them over the edge - they lose their houses.
And so what is your responsibility in all this? As a free woman or man, you are responsible to recognize what they are doing and refuse to help them. You have to own up that if help them, you contribute to the evil. BTW, your role in this operation is crucial to 21st Century. As a public official and neighbor, the victims will trust you much more.
The reason that Hitler was able to do the vast amount of destruction he did was because of good, German people, simply doing what they were trained to do. Engineers, factory workers, etc., merely doing their jobs as best they knew how. The either did not know what their government was doing, or they felt that it wasn't their responsibility.
I only use Nazi Germany as an example because it's pertinient, and my best example. I'm not comparing 21st Century, or anyone, to Nazis.
Once you realize what they are doing to your neighbors, I don't believe you will work for them. Unless you are a monster, you can't look someone in the eye, take the last of their money, while you know what's about to happen to them.
BTW, 21st Century won't send you an email until the last moment, because they know it's more difficult to research them. (Do you think they'll even pay you?)
Have a great weekend, Stamper (Michael)
quote: Originally posted by gjk-fl
I really don't see the difference in taking these jobs or taking a refi signing that is totally a bad deal for the borrower. I am hired to go and id the borrowers and watch them sign. What they sign and what they decide to do for themselves is no business of mine.
gjk
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mornflt
Missouri
4 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2009 : 6:42:30 PM
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Isn't it a little strange that 21st Century have the client acknoledge by signiture, to hold everyone harmless, except you. And yet they ask you to act as if you are their representative. You know, I was born at night, but not last night. Stu
Stu Schankman |
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PWinFL
Florida
352 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2009 : 6:38:41 PM
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>>> Now, I don't know how it is in TX but as I said, I can only speak for FL...I won't be picking up any checks. <<<
Not only will I not pick up any checks, I won't even accept an assignment. To avoid getting trapped, and under advisement of counsel, our office will not engage in any foreclosure recovery efforts by any company.
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida, and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
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LindaH
Florida
856 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2009 : 3:27:10 PM
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I can only speak for Florida here...FL Section 501.1377...in part..
"(3) PROHIBITED ACTS.In the course of offering or providing foreclosure-related rescue services, a foreclosure-rescue consultant may not: (a) Engage in or initiate foreclosure-related rescue services without first executing a written agreement with the homeowner for foreclosure-related rescue services; or (b) Solicit, charge, receive, or attempt to collect or secure payment, directly or indirectly, for foreclosure-related rescue services before completing or performing all services contained in the agreement for foreclosure-related rescue services."
Then there's this: http://www.floridaforeclosurefraud.com/category/fla-stat-5011377
Now, I don't know how it is in TX but as I said, I can only speak for FL...I won't be picking up any checks.
Linda www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
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12042
Texas
5 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2009 : 3:01:57 PM
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Alot of misinformation on this post so I want to clarify somethings quick. Its NOT illegal to accept upfront payments for a foreclosure/ loan modification help situation. It's ONLY illegal in certain states if it's NOT paid directly to a law firm that you put on retainer. No middleman involved (21st Century is breaking the law like many other loan mod companies sadly).
This is clearly written and stated in the Forclosure Consultant Act Law. Loan Modifications in general are completely legal and how were going to get out of this real estate mess. You should also NEVER pay more then $4,000 for a loan mod and under $2,000. Your probably getting duped and it's not truly a attorney based loan modification if it's under $2,000. Loss mitigation attorneys spend dozens of hours per case, so even at $200 per hour fora real cheap attorney the numbers don't work.
Also contrary to all the lies and misleading advertising by loan mod companies right now, ONLY 2% of ALL load mods will result in any principal reduction of a mortgage historically. That is just some sleazy tactic to tell people what they want to hear and to get people to cough up money that is usually non-refundable.
Mobile Austin Notary www.mobileaustinnotary.com http://activerain.com/blogs/pecs29 "The Nicest Notaries & Process Servers in Texas, That Go To You 24/7!"
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LindaH
Florida
856 Posts |
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tomthenotary
64 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2009 : 07:44:25 AM
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Ok... first of all 21st century isn't a title or signing company.. there a legal service....?? without lawyers??? what do they do?? What they do is find people in stressful situations and give them a probaly false sense of hope for the problem they have.. I took the order like I would any other after brief conversation regarding what need to be accomplished... at no time did the company explain funds were to be picked up.. no time... simply some documents... paystubs etc....so right away they were unprofessional...in addition ..I wasn't working as a notary,no docs had to be notarized. so I was a Joe off the street..having a person complete some paper work and give me three post dated checks.. post dated checks are illegal..they are not promissary notes.. now lets get to the client ..I leave a message and get a return call.. right off the bat she ask me weather this company is legit..I tell her I am a independant person without an opinion .. the client says "well I'm not comfortable writing checks in advance not knowing if I'll get the loan modified.. she cancels the appointment and will contact the company..now who's unprofessional ..21st wasted my time and the customers..peddeling their questionable product to hard working everyday people looking for a solution... again loan mods DONOT cost $$$$. 
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PWinFL
Florida
352 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2009 : 05:20:56 AM
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No, I don't disapprove of YOU. Quite the contrary. I respect you and your posts. What I disapprove of is not telling the hiring agency why you (or anyone) won't do their signings. I always tell signing services and title companies that have bad reputations that I decline their request because of the information that I have received concerning their practices. Sometimes they will defend their position and other times they say "fine" and hang up. I'm sure I have been removed from many call lists, but it saves me having to repeatedly refuse assignments.
I certainly agree that I would not do nor do I condone the practice of taking an assignment and not completing it just for spite.
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida, and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
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LindaH
Florida
856 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2009 : 5:38:50 PM
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I have no problem telling them the truth - but the truth for me would be "I'll go get your paperwork signed for you but I will not collect checks on your behalf and you need to pay me up front". I'd rather say that or tell them I'm not available than pull the stunt the other poster suggested - that tactic, to me, is just completely unprofessional, unethical and totally out of line.
And by your little red face you disapprove of ME??..think you're anger is a bit misplaced...
MHO
Linda www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
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Edited by - LindaH on 04/16/2009 5:41:07 PM |
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PWinFL
Florida
352 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2009 : 5:19:30 PM
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"a simple "I'm not available" will suffice."
Why lie? Tell them why you won't accept their assignments. Maybe if enough tell them the truth, they'll get the message. Then again, maybe not.
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida, and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
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LindaH
Florida
856 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2009 : 3:49:33 PM
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"lets create Kaos on them , accept the orders and don't show and don't tell 21st"
No...that's just plain old occupational suicide...just don't work for them if you feel that strongly, but maintain your integrity ... you do the above to one company for whatever reason you may have - you'll do it for others for reasons you consider sound...
Unless, of course, you DO want to close up shop, in which case disregard everything I said and have at it...but I, for one, won't play that game - a simple "I'm not available" will suffice.
MHO
Linda www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
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tomthenotary
64 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2009 : 10:27:51 AM
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I was contacted yesterday to complete a application for 21st Century. I did accept and reviewed the docs. As of this post I am 5 hours from the scheduled meet with the client, BTW the client has not confirmed, and after reading many post and blogs regarding this company... guesss whooo ain't gona be there?? thats right... anyhow, this company seems to be.. well.. taking advantage of home owners who are looking for real help, my rule.. loan mods DONOT cost 2000.00 + dollars and post dated checks sound like a consumer trap, this company is now filed under the same file as LIA, Closing Quest and CJ Signing, finally, lets create Kaos on them , accept the orders and don't show and don't tell 21st
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Stamper
North Carolina
17 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 1:34:54 PM
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I am amazed that 21st Century Legal Services has posted in this topic. I would have expected these people to be hiding, much like a cockroach when the kitchen light comes on.
Perhaps they have found a way to steal legally, with a document that says that the consumers might not get anything for their money.
Regardless of what you believe, I know there will come a day when all of mankind will give an account the the Creator. I wouldn't want to be them.
These are some of the lowest forms of human life, and even before that day comes, I hope they ALL go to jail. |
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Donna405
South Carolina
6 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 7:33:07 PM
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Does anyone have the e-mail address for 21st Century. I seem to have lost it. Thanks,
Donna (who is due an invoice from 2/27/09)
Best wishes,
Donna |
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Shelly
Florida
11 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2009 : 6:11:11 PM
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Thank you all who have posted about this company. They called me today, but never sent a confirmation. I thought it was strange when they offered up the signers info over the phone. I waited to call and later called 21st back, but they insisted there was no such client in their records and rudely talked over me. Smelled like a rat - told them to forget it - then discovered my instincts were right on! Thanks for covering our backs!
Shelly Fox www.smfox.com www.1and1.com/?k_id=8022109
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PWinFL
Florida
352 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2009 : 10:28:14 AM
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quote: Originally posted by peanut20
You may not be doing anything illeagal as a notary when you sign these people, but rest assured if these people start suing 21st, you will be in the court room next to them.
If you are summoned to appear, you will be doing so as a document processor (and probably personally liable), since you were not hired to, and did not perform any notarial function, being a notary has nothing to do with it.
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida, and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
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peanut20
Minnesota
10 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2009 : 09:43:43 AM
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I had the same issue as far as what I was to give to the customer, I still made him an entire copy of the package. I will never have anyone sign a document that I havnt givin them a copy of. I also filled in dates on the blank RTC for him. The customer and his father kept asking me what I thought of this program, and being a notary (un biased) I told them I cant formulate any opinions, but I told them I could say the most important thing you can do is read everything from top to bottom and ask as many questions as you want of the company your doing business with. 1 hour later the client called me and asked me how to cancel, I directed him to call his rep. I have been called by this company for 5 deals in 1 week, 1 recinded, 4 told me not to show up. You may not be doing anything illeagal as a notary when you sign these people, but rest assured if these people start suing 21st, you will be in the court room next to them.
john wilson |
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LindaH
Florida
856 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2009 : 09:17:23 AM
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quote: Originally posted by 4113
Hello. I would like to echo the sentiments I am reading here. I received a call Friday, 04/03/2009 from 21st Century Legal Services to take paperwork to a client 45 miles one way. They adjusted my fee, but when I contacted the client he was concerned about paying money upfront. So I called 21st Century to ask whether it is legal to collect money upfront for a loan modification (thanx LindaH). They said they weren't sure, but that they would get back to me. Well, I did some due diligence on 21st Century and found a lot of complaints on line from clients and then on this blog from fellow notaries. When I called my potential client back this morning he informed me that I had canceled the appointment--which was news to me--and that someone else had been scheduled to go out and complete the assignment. Well, that was the final warning not to do business with 21st Century. And I am also not real comfortable when any company expects a notary to perform his/her services as if we are a "customer service" rep for 21st Century!! What's wrong with that picture?? How much time have you got?? That's like buying alcohol for an under aged kid!! I already let 21st Century know that they can remove me from their list for assignments here in South Florida and I hope all of you do as well. I have done about three or four loan modification closings for other companies and have never had to collect money upfront. Does anyone have any legitimate loan modification companies I can contact to take assignments in this area? One last word of advice, it looks like we have to be just as aware of the scam companies doing loan modifications as we are about signing companies and title companies. Carry on notaries!!!
www.marketing-your-niche-business.com
What a shame that they probably found someone to do it...sounds like you had a very savvy homeowner there, Frank, and hopefully that homeowner stuck to his guns about the money .. guess people are starting to listen to the PSA's on TV and doing their homework....
My suggestion is to go directly to the lender for modification business...that's who has the final say on whether the homeowners will be offered a modification and what type...
Good Luck!!
Linda www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
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4113
Florida
30 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2009 : 07:33:34 AM
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Hello. I would like to echo the sentiments I am reading here. I received a call Friday, 04/03/2009 from 21st Century Legal Services to take paperwork to a client 45 miles one way. They adjusted my fee, but when I contacted the client he was concerned about paying money upfront. So I called 21st Century to ask whether it is legal to collect money upfront for a loan modification (thanx LindaH). They said they weren't sure, but that they would get back to me. Well, I did some due diligence on 21st Century and found a lot of complaints on line from clients and then on this blog from fellow notaries. When I called my potential client back this morning he informed me that I had canceled the appointment--which was news to me--and that someone else had been scheduled to go out and complete the assignment. Well, that was the final warning not to do business with 21st Century. And I am also not real comfortable when any company expects a notary to perform his/her services as if we are a "customer service" rep for 21st Century!! What's wrong with that picture?? How much time have you got?? That's like buying alcohol for an under aged kid!! I already let 21st Century know that they can remove me from their list for assignments here in South Florida and I hope all of you do as well. I have done about three or four loan modification closings for other companies and have never had to collect money upfront. Does anyone have any legitimate loan modification companies I can contact to take assignments in this area? One last word of advice, it looks like we have to be just as aware of the scam companies doing loan modifications as we are about signing companies and title companies. Carry on notaries!!!
www.marketing-your-niche-business.com |
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mornflt
Missouri
4 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2009 : 5:55:43 PM
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| 21st Century requires the borrower to sign an acknowlegement of receipt of notice of right of rescission, but there is no copy in their packet to give to the borrower. When I called them and insisted that the borrower be given a copy, they finally agreed that I could make a copy for the borrower. Then about thirty minutes later I received a call form 21st Century stating that they made a scheduling mistake and that they already had another person assigned to do the signing. Sure thay did. Guess I won't hear from them again. |
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LindaH
Florida
856 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2009 : 08:15:17 AM
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ANYONE AND EVERYONE needs to do their state-specific research .... collecting fees up front for loan modifications is illegal in CA, FL, MD, NC and NY and maybe other states, with pending legislation in almost all states ...meaning, IMO, if you go to a homeowner as a "representative" of this company and collect funds up front for their modification, you're performing an illegal act for this company and may be held just as accountable.
Beware.
Linda www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
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iamsam
Virginia
35 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2009 : 07:46:48 AM
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This company is being investigated in Virginia by the SAO's office. They did a re-fi for a woman and took her money and never did the re-fi. She is now in bankruptcy and has filed a suit against 21st Century. BIG scam artists
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Lee-AR
Arkansas
234 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2009 : 05:32:47 AM
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4/2/09...there was quite a thread on NR yesterday on this co...including bounced checks and non-payment.
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judysimone
California
2 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2009 : 12:46:44 PM
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I,too, was called by 21st Century, then looked them up on the net and started reading the postings and followed my gut - this is not for me. I do not want my name connected anywhere that a lawsuit could come about and I am sure there will be many suits. No 3-day notice given to clients, no copy of application.  |
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PWinFL
Florida
352 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2009 : 07:30:13 AM
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quote: Originally posted by LindaH ... IMO your forum alias, "c21donj" says it all....
My research has shown that "c21donj" is Don Johnson, broker/owner of a Century 21 Real Estate franchise in Chesterton, IN. I have no idea if there is any connection to 21st Century Legal, though his replies lead me to believe there is some connection. Of course, I may be wrong and Don can correct me.
Take a look at his Home Selling System!
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida, and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
Edited by - PWinFL on 03/21/2009 07:35:16 AM |
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LindaH
Florida
856 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2009 : 07:11:45 AM
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C21donj, I'm going to respond to a few things you said..
"The 7th signed the day before the sale. The sale wasn't stopped, but 21st Century Legal Services is getting the sale reversed and saving the home! " Didn't realize this could be done short of a bankruptcy filing just prior to the sale - must be a state-specific thing...
"If they have great credit, a great job, and equity in their home, then they can probably qualify for the bailout refinance programs" If that's the case, then IMO they're not in trouble and their property is more than likely fairly safe..they don't NEED 21st Century's modification help - they may WANT it but they don't NEED it
"21st Century Legal Services processing fee is only over $2000 (actually $2200) if the borrower has a foreclosure sale date that needs to get stopped. If there is no sale date, the processing fee is much less" Now this statement absolutely slays me - it is so not true it's ridiculous...I've had 2 appointments set up with 21st Century - both fees were well over $2K, (the second one was closer to $3K) - and the guy wasn't even late on his payments, let alone at foreclosure!! I WILL point out here that the person who had to give me close to $3K WAS TOTALLY DISABLED AND RECEIVING A WHOPPING $1,500/MONTH IN DISABILITY PAYMENTS!!! This case turned my stomach.
I'm all for defending companies, and for me the jury's still out on 21st Century - my experience with them doesn't allow me to say that all that 21st Century does is all bad (although IME it's not looking real good) but IMO your forum alias, "c21donj" says it all....
Linda www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
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c21donj
Indiana
2 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2009 : 8:12:57 PM
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My experience with 21st Century Legal Services has been very, very positive, both as a customer, and a signer/representative.
Renee, your daughter's experience with Chase is not some kind of miracle or out of the norm. 21st Century Legal Services is helping people to get these results and better on a daily basis. One of my lenders just gave me a 3.92% rate on one of my investment properties! I also did 7 signings for 21st Century Legal Services last month for people who were scheduled for foreclosure at the beginning of this month. I followed up and 6 out of the 7 had their foreclosure successfully stopped and were very grateful! The 7th signed the day before the sale. The sale wasn't stopped, but 21st Century Legal Services is getting the sale reversed and saving the home! 21st Century Legal helped them before they had even received the FedEx with the signed paperwork and checks!
I don't know of a lender in the entire country that is not offering assistance to their borrowers these days. Go on any lender website or call any lender. On the lender's home page and introductory phone message, they are all advertising home retention programs for borrower's struggling with payments. Granted, the lenders are helping borrowers for purely selfish motives in order for the lenders to strengthen their financial statements and meet their Federal Reserve requirements, and/or qualify for some of the fed's bailout money. Nonetheless, borrowers are getting helped by getting variable rates changed to fixed rates, getting lower interest rates, lowering payments, and interest only options lowering payments further. In addition, delinquent payments are being forgiven, negotiated down, or added to the end of the loan.
Please realize that people are struggling. If they have great credit, a great job, and equity in their home, then they can probably qualify for the bailout refinance programs. For the rest of us in the real world, modifications are our best hope. Sure, we could try to work it out with our lender directly...and we can also represent ourselves in court, perform our own surgeries, buy and sell a house without a realtor or attorney, cut our own hair, etc. but we likely won't get the results we could get with an experienced professional. 21st Century Legal Services are helping so many people, that this discussion is landing at the top of search engines from so many people looking for confidence that they are making a wise decision.
From the research that I've done, much of what 12042 stated below is true regarding modification and modification companies. However, he is way off base regarding 21st Century Legal Services, and I find it amusing that he offers to hook you up with another mod company. First of all, apparently 12042 didn't do his research on BBB ratings. There are only 4 complaints, all within a 3 week period. The negative rating results from not responding to the BBB about the complaints. 21st Century Legal Services is dealing with hundreds of people each week! Did he read the positive reviews? Second, 21st Century Legal Services processing fee is only over $2000 (actually $2200) if the borrower has a foreclosure sale date that needs to get stopped. If there is no sale date, the processing fee is much less. Third, most people with a foreclosure sale date are under tremendous emotional stress. They are severely telemarketed and solicited by dozens of companies. Of course they are upset. They don't know who to trust. Time is also of the essence, and signings need to happen as soon as possible. Fourth, 21st Century Legal Services does pay as promised for our efforts as signers, as long as we meet with the people, whether they sign or not. Fifth, 21st Century Legal Services do give refunds for anyone who doesn't get their mod approved. However, they tell me that they have a 95-98% approval rate. Sixth, ask anyone who has gone through the entire mod process, even directly with their lender, the lenders are taking 3-4 months. A simple payment arrangement takes less time, but is usually not very helpful. Seventh, I chose 21st Century Legal Services to do my modifications because I didn't have a large chunk of money. I was struggling to make my payments! They were the only company I found willing to let me pay in payments over the course of the modification.
People are looking for help, and they want to know who they can trust. I'm sure that many of these people, like me, have experienced financial hardship through reduction in income, increase in expenses, or significant loss of home value, and they need help. They go online to do some research, and this discussion comes up in the top of the search engines. In my humble opinion, there is no room for opinions, people need the facts.
I've given lots of positive facts above. The only confirmed negative that I've experienced with 21st Century Legal Services is that their phone lines are overly busy, and voice mail boxes often full. Sometimes when I call and get put on hold or go to voicemail I feel like I'm dealing with my utility company However, I'm told that they are helping well over 100 people a day now, working on improving their communication systems, and hiring more people everyday! I'm glad that I'm one of their clients, and one of their signers/reps.  |
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Sherry Bircheat
Alabama
1 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2009 : 10:48:58 AM
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| I did three of these and then stopped. I was concerned about the fact that the paperwork from 21st Century had the prospective borrower sign a document saying that they had received copies of the documents they signed, but I was told not to give them copies! Also, they were advised to stop making their mortgage payments. The borrowers had made every effort not to get behind and affect their credit and this company was telling them not to pay. |
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Renee
Michigan
414 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2009 : 02:17:11 AM
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Ben/Austin, TX - I searched but couldn't find the statistics as you referenced them. Could you post a link to the sourced NYT article? In my rather determined search, I was interested in finding the statistics regarding the difference in re-default rates between those who obtained legal help and those who did not (in having their loans modified).
My daughter just obtained a modification from Chase - they did this themselves without assistance, legal or otherwise; it was a fairly simple & straight-forward process gaining them a reduction in the interest rate (from 6% to 4.75% & = $100/mo savings), a deferment of 4 mos of payments (put at the end of the 30 yr mtg), no hit to their credit report, and just a cash payment to hold the escrow acct level. Their reason for distress was a 'rolling snowball' of financial woes due to two pay-rate deductions from his employer, Chrysler.
The payment deferment enabled them to catch up EVERY bill, while the reduction enables them to KEEP everything up-to-speed - God & Chrysler willing.
So what you are saying is that their experience with Chase was some kind of miracle, and totally out of the norm - which is why I'd really like to find that source article you mentioned. |
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5470
Missouri
3 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2009 : 4:56:14 PM
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Time for round eleven from the "Paralegal" (the actual legal work horse!!).
I begin working in the mortgage industry in 1978, while attending law school. For family reasons, settled on my Masters in Paralegal Studies. Worked with and for all sides of the industry for quite sometime. Illiness called and stupidly I answered and found this wonderful field as a signing agent that allowed me to work and be sick at the same time. However, less I digress, I think I am qualified to respond to this.
There seems to be a little alleged "hook and crook" here (just my humble opinion). Maybe I am wrong but it stinks. They do ask you to acknowledge yourself as their customer service representative (which I don't!!). They do ask the borrowers for 3 post dated checks, and one additional one dated for the date you meet with them. Yes, they do pay timely, however, the gritty feeling you have, you receive once you leave is unbarable. Not all customers, as I learned, are in danger of losing their home. They just sign up to find ways of saving a few bucks each month. Some are. (I've only done two=to many) Nonetheless, how do you feel when you leave? How do you feel once you arrive and nothing has been explained? How do you feel when a simple signing that should take no more than 20 to 30 minutes, if that, takes more than 1 1/2 hours? Not very good. There are great mod companies out there that don't leave such a bitter taste in your mouth like this one. Things are tight now. But I think I will take that[this] income loss. It is bad enough not sleeping at night for worrying about not getting paid and work decrease. Adding an alleged seemingly unfair practice, which by the way goes against everything we should stand for (remember that small thing...trust) to my insomnia is just not worth it. |
Edited by - 5470 on 03/16/2009 5:27:56 PM |
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12042
Texas
5 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2009 : 04:31:03 AM
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Ok this is like a 10th round Heavyweight fight going on, figured I better jump in while it's hot and heavy. :D
First off most of you are truly WAY off about the facts about loan modifications and it being un-ethical to pay a reputable company to help you through it.
Saying someone can navigate thru a very difficult loan modification process on there own with lenders that are getting hundreds, if not thousands of calls a day. OMG, why don't you just shoot someone instead, would be better advice. Has anyone ever did it themselves and it worked great forever and ever? Sure, has someone one the $100M lottery to, Yep. But you wouldn't say those are good odds now would you!
Would you represent yourself in a messy divorce in court, not unless you wanted to lose badly you wouldn't. Same thing with loan modifications, you need actual lawyers to do the difficult research and interact with the prickly lenders.
Mitigation lawyers (not plain old lawyers that you might know) have years if not decades of experience doing this with banks everyday and have countless contacts and relationships built.
I worked as a banking consultant for a Fortune 500 company for numerous years at some of the biggest banks in the world. It takes a certain type of polished and highly skilled person to deal with executive type bankers. These aren't bank tellers or branch managers you deal with at your local bank ok, were talking 6-figure MBA types and severe bean counters.
When homeowners try to do their own home loan modifications here are some recent facts:
New Tork Times Feb 19th, 2009
FACT 1: The 14 largest banks reported OVER HALF of the loans they modified for people that did there own loan modifications last year, went delinquent in just 6 months time! (What does that tell you on what happens if you try to do it yourself!) FACT 2: 80% homeowners that do there own loan modifications will end up in default working with the average attorney based loan modification company (NOT 21st century or other non-attorney based companies out there, I will get to our experience with 21st centtury) only half of that at around 40%.
Next ONLY reputable attorney based loan modification companies give 100% money back guarantees! 21st century is a joke, they get the persons $2,000 regardless if they do there job or not. No guarantee at all! Why anyone would do that is beyond me.
We had 12 of these loan mods given to us this week alone from 21st Century through another company, to try and do.
Guess what? All 12 people either yelled (Not mad, YELLED) at my notaries when they called them for no reason. Why? Because 21st Century folks severly telemarketed and soliticted these people (these people DIDN'T contact them first), Or the people didn't want to sign and wouldn't schedule an appointment with any of my notaries.
We were told numerous times they were never explained the process one bit, the fees, terms, etc. We also were told that numerous OTHER notaries were calling these 12 signers to try and get them to schedule and sign.
So they waste our time and money calling literally hundreds of times trying to schedule these appointments. Did I mention you DON'T get paid unless you get all the paperwork and collect $2K from clients as well. There trying to manipulate and bully people by using all these different notaries that are calling these signers. All the while the other notaries have no idea other notaries are involved.
Total scam circus!
Some of my notaries were almost in tears from the abuse they got when they called these people. People are probably so sick of getting calls, they just took it out on my notaries sadly.
I finally checked out 21st Century Legal Services, guess what F-rating on BBB. I don't care what there customer service person says on this forum, you can't get a F-rating overnight on the BBB or with just a few bad reviews. This company might pay you within a couple of weeks and I know many of you notaries need the money badly. But your reputation is not worth a few bucks or your intergrity with 21st Century Legal.
I have been working with one of the biggest and best nationwide 9-attorney group company and becoming one of there nationwide franchise type companies for doing ethical ATTORNEY BASED loan modifications. I got so sick of the horror stories I heard from my notaries about the outrageous fees and interest rates scummy loan mod and refinancing companies are charging signers over the last 6 months. Talk about kicking someone when there down. :(
Here is this companies process and stats: 1. FREE detailed attorney consultation and file analysis on your specific mortgage. (Not a paralegal or some pee-on). The attorneys will actually pull your deed or note of trust on file with your individual state and review the terms of your loan to see what they can do for you, if anything. Again there honest and totally upfront, since they don't guarantee at all they will even accept your application once you submit.
2. You submit the mini-application (FREE) that you fill out online or by phone that doesn't take more then 10 minutes, they have a 97% approval rate for people enduring financial hardships. Turnaround time is 24-48 hours to see if they can help you or not.
3. Once there approved, they fill out a standard 12pg formal application in person with a rep that comes to there home or office or they can just send the completed paper work in to us.
4. Total process time from application to loan mod completed is 30-45 days, depending on there state and the lender there using.
5. Checks are made out from the client directly to the law firm that will be representing them. No middleman involved. No one will contact the lender on behalf of the client, except the assigned attorney or attorneys.
6. You WON'T be asked to pretend your a customer service or representative for this company (your simply a paperwork facilator)or have signers pre-date checks. Unlike with 21st Century.
7. Fee is $2,695 one check (not three checks, why would a company need three checks written and pre-dated? RED FLAG), and 100% refunded if for some reason after they get intitially approved they can't get the bank to modify there loan. This is in writing to protect people as well.
FYI average loan mods costs are from $2-$4K normally nationwide right now, better law firms charge more like they do in any industry. This is nothing comparing the average closing costs on a $150,000 house doing a refi or new loan is between 3-6% or $4,500-$9,000.
There is no closing costs, no points, and no other fees involved. Doesn't matter what there credit is (could be a 400) or how long they've had a job or lived in a certain place. Because a loan modification is NOT a new loan, like a refinance or home equity type loan.
Plus, loan modifications don't destroy your credit like with a foreclosure, bankruptcy or short sale. The only thing that hurts you is, the longer you don't pay or pay late on your mortgage the lenders report that to the three credit bureaus.
Definition: A loan modification occurs any time any term of the original loan contract is permanently altered. This can involve a reduction in the interest rate, forgiveness of a portion of principal or extension of the maturity date of the loan.
Loan modifications are made when borrowers can no longer meet the financial requirements to make their monthly mortgage payments. Lenders look at loan modifications on a case-by-case basis.
With all this said I will be launching a huge nationwide marketing campaign with this 9-attorney group network. We will be paying $150.00 for every referral you give us that closes (or refund back to you if you personally need it a loan mod, since I know many notaries do) or if we think we might need you to go out and get the paperwork filled out and collect check from clients. Either way you make $150 for doing nothing but referring someone to us or doing what you already do everyday with being a mobile notary/signing agent.
Currently I heard 1 out of 9 people are late or have missed a mortgage payment. Look at 9 of your neighbors, one of them needs loan mod help!
All approved clients will be given ahead of time a info packet of everything they need to send the attorneys before you get there. No suprises I promise.
Did I mention we pay you by PayPal or check (your choice) within 2-3 weeks guaranteed for every closed application you refer us or help us complete.
Currently in 2009 7-9 million homes that will need loan mods, foreclosed on, etc. Not including 2009-2012 where estimates are double that!
You want to make money in this depressed economic climate, then you need to find different ways to replace the income from less loan signings you will do now and in the near future.
I will have more details for everyone later this month.
Feel free to email me offline if your needing some loan mod help yourself or any other questions you may have for me. ben@mobileaustinnotary.com
Thanks,
Ben Jordan CEO/Founder www.mobileaustinnotary.com Mobile Austin Notary "The Nicest Notaries & Process Servers in TX, That Go To You 24/7!"
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rwedertz
New Mexico
23 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2009 : 12:11:36 PM
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I have looked at this situation from a couple of angles. Certainly there is the "ethical" point of view and there is also the business aspect of this operation. As far as ethical goes, this is sort of a stretch, in that instead of paying anywhere from $1,750 to $2,000 to obtain a loan modification, one can go to his/her lender or go to free counseling or the FannieMae/FreddieMac websites and do it for free after reading and determining whether or not they qualify.
My particular axe to grind is that I have done one of these modifications, and since I was going to be in the area of the client, I accepted the job. True, there were about 30 pages, and true, no notarization was involved. There is a caveat that I read on the Confirmation Sheet - IF YOU DO NOT COLLECT THE 3 CHECKS, YOU WILL NOT BE PAID.
So, I called the client, made the appointment arrangement and asked if he had the three checks (in this case totalling $1,750), which he said he did. He also had his ID copy, so things were good (Ha!).
I arrived at the client's home, an elderly widower, who was trying to hold on to his home on $1,435 SS a month and his ship was slowly sinking. The forms might as well have been in Ukrainian, as he had no idea what to put down for many of the questions. He was NOT told what to have ready, and as a result, for every other question, he had to go and rummage around the house for paperwork. He had no idea what his loan account number was, where the payment center was, what his taxes were, what his insurance payment was, who his agent was, NOTHING. He DID have a copy of his Drivers License and three checks. That was it. After a PAINFUL hour and-a-half of squeezing information from him, we got the forms (sort of)completed (I called in and was told not to worry if he didn't have copies of all of the materials they desired.....but don't forget those THREE CHECKS!). It's like drinking suspect milk, you drink it but you know it's off, and shortly it's bound to go sour. That's the way I felt.
Yes, I was paid in a timely manner, in less than two weeks. Very nice. Will I do it again? No. From a business standpoint it was time-consuming and frustrating - from an ethical standpoint it still feels increasingly uncomfortable. In sum, I don't believe in the "product." I advised 21st Century that I would not be doing any more modifications for them, but they keep calling - hopefully they will get the message. I still remember that little old man.
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eefairy303
Texas
41 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2009 : 12:46:05 PM
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i found this from one of their "customers" on rip-offreport.com (it's an excerpt):
"Bottom line is that they want your money and since the checks that you hand them when the notary comes to your home are pre-dated, you will see that they will do anything to cash them before you realize that you have been scammed. Check Web Site http://www.123notary.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3187
Andrea Martinez is the brains behind this elaborate scam and I hope to god someone can stop her from ripping people off of their hard earned money.
Andrea Martinez stopped taking our calls and further threatened us by getting a hold of our mortgage servicer and telling them that they are no longer representing us and to fully proceed with the foreclosure after our Bankruptcy is dismissed from lack of the counseling certificate.
They just started up a web site that they didn't have a month ago. Please stop them before they abuse any more families, since this is who they are hurting."
wow. you guys are bigger scam artists and LOSERS than i thought. you should be ashamed of yourselves.
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eefairy303
Texas
41 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2009 : 12:15:38 PM
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i have repeatedly asked 21st Century not to call me anymore. that right there shows that they can't follow simple directions. i've made a choice not to EVER work for them because their business practices are questionable and i don't want to be involved in ripping people off that are already hurting. it's not a notary's job to be the moral police but i must draw the line on this company. so take a hint 21st century, DON'T CALL ME ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!!!
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21stCenturyLS_CustomerSer
California
2 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2009 : 5:26:39 PM
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I'm not on the financial side so I only have a general idea how the payment process works.
We generally work on behalf of clients for an extended period before any fees are collected and then we break the payments up over several months.
No two loan modifications are the same.
Each lender has different procedures, qualification guide lines and then the process is complicated by the practice of pooling loans and selling them off as securities.
While I can appreciate that many people upside down on their home loan still make house payments, myself included. It is counter productive to resent those who are behind and are seeking a way to stay in their home through a loan modification.
Foreclosures hurt the entire community. Dragging down prices in a death spiral that seems never to end.
At least with a loan modification people stay in their property and its not on the market at "Fire Sale" prices.
Each of our clients have the option of doing their own modification or seek help from a non-profit. Many have and then turned to us in frustration. Many of our loan modification processors have gone through the process themselves, some were successful, some lost their homes. Each has learned valuable lessons that is brought to bear on behalf of our clients.
Our legal team has an extensive background in real estate law and forensic document analysis.
As for working with us in the future, thank you for the vote of confidence, we generally work with the same notaries in a given area if they have proven reliable. We appreciate the professionalism each of you brings to your work and know that it is not easy to deal with people who are in distress.
Customer Services 21st Century Legal Services |
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Lee-AR
Arkansas
234 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2009 : 09:44:16 AM
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I do appreciate your company responding to comments made on this forum as it is good to hear 'the other side of the story'. I did an application for you a while back and wonder (hope, actually) if you will be calling the same notary who took the application to do the Loan Mod signing--as 'your representive', you know? I surely hope you will, as I would like to have some firsthand knowledge that the applicants actually did get their money's worth.
It does seem suspect that those people who filed the Ripoff Report said that your company had kept ALL the money and were unable to get them a Loan Modification. One would think your company would know whether or not it was possible after cashing just one check to cover actual expenses...and, if not possible, return the remaining post-dated checks because you were, in fact, unable to help.
Your comments on these topics would be of interest to all, I'm sure.
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21stCenturyLS_CustomerSer
California
2 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2009 : 11:54:05 PM
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For some one who has only dealt with our company since this past weekend, you know us with great certainty.
As for the Better Business Bureau we are addressing the few complaints lodged against us.
Ripoffreport has no mechanism for us to resolve complaints and as we have over 1,500 active files and growing, we have precious little time to devote to seriously address what boils down to name calling and innuendo. We are busy SAVING PEOPLES HOMES!
Which is why I find your remarks off for some one who is supposed to maintain the utmost integrity and honesty.
We have turned to notaries to represent us for those vary reasons. We are sending strangers to our clients homes. We count on that integrity and honesty to protect our clients and our business.
I suspect you are no Notary.
quote: Originally posted by VEstridge
I got a call from this company this past weekend and since they are new to me I googled them and was surprised that Notaries are actually working for them. I found that this company has a rating of "F" with the Better Business Bureau and is listed on Ripoffreport.com as a fradulent company. They are NOT a legal firm. There are no guarantees that they could help these homeowners modify their loans and do not offer money back if they cannot help them. They wanted me to act as a "Representative" for their company and told me that I would not be notarizing one single document. To be put on their list for future modification jobs in my area they wanted my drivers license, social security card, Notary Certification and a few other docuements confirming my identity. That right there raised a red flag...If I'm not notarizing any documents, why do they need all this information on me? Who is to say they won't use my information to steal my identity or have me hauled into court when someone sues them! No thank you!!!! Knowing all of this after I accepted the modification job, I called them back and asked them to remove me from their list. As a notary public commissioned by my state, I am considered the front liner in detecting fraud. There is no way I would put myself, my notary licensing or reputation on the line to earn a few bucks stealing from homeowners that are already struggling. SHAME ON THIS COMPANY AND SHAME ON ANYONE WHO ACCEPTS WORK FROM THEM KNOWING THIS INFORMATION
Customer Services 21st Century Legal Services |
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VEstridge
New York
5 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2009 : 7:26:43 PM
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I got a call from this company this past weekend and since they are new to me I googled them and was surprised that Notaries are actually working for them. I found that this company has a rating of "F" with the Better Business Bureau and is listed on Ripoffreport.com as a fradulent company. They are NOT a legal firm. There are no guarantees that they could help these homeowners modify their loans and do not offer money back if they cannot help them. They wanted me to act as a "Representative" for their company and told me that I would not be notarizing one single document. To be put on their list for future modification jobs in my area they wanted my drivers license, social security card, Notary Certification and a few other docuements confirming my identity. That right there raised a red flag...If I'm not notarizing any documents, why do they need all this information on me? Who is to say they won't use my information to steal my identity or have me hauled into court when someone sues them! No thank you!!!! Knowing all of this after I accepted the modification job, I called them back and asked them to remove me from their list. As a notary public commissioned by my state, I am considered the front liner in detecting fraud. There is no way I would put myself, my notary licensing or reputation on the line to earn a few bucks stealing from homeowners that are already struggling. SHAME ON THIS COMPANY AND SHAME ON ANYONE WHO ACCEPTS WORK FROM THEM KNOWING THIS INFORMATION |
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pafrealtor
California
1 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2009 : 12:27:53 PM
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quote: Originally posted by shaedog1
I've done approximately 4 loan mods for 21st Century in the past 2 months. My experience with this company has been nothing but positive. I usually deal with Janel and Iris, both pleasant gals. As Jeremy stated, if you don't suspect fraud then just do the job as hired. That's what I do and I've gotten paid within 3-4 weeks of each mod. There's nothing I hate more than calling & calling a company to get my well-deserved $$$. With 21st Century I don't have that hassle. I'll definitely keep answering my phone when they call. I truly believe that they are in the business of helping people save their homes.
Kelly Payne
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MichelleT
Florida
3 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2009 : 6:07:35 PM
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**Update** - Finally got paid 2/18/09 for 12/08 job.
I did one of these also in early December and have yet to be paid. Got their paperwork completed, signed and collected their three checks; enclosed my invoice for services with all as directed and fedex'd to them. I've emailed once and called three times to collect. The first two times I called, "Ruby" didn't even ask for my information, just said they had just sent out alot of payments to notaries as they were behind. I finally got a call back today and no apology, just fax the invoice-they don't have it in their system. They called me over the weekend about a job and I told them 'no thank you'.
I won't do anymore work for them and it only partially has to do with the payment issue.
I told my husband after doing the first one that I felt dirty somehow. The client was a really nice older gentleman and I felt bad taking his money to send it to these people. The fees this company is collecting.. and if you read their paperwork, it states there is NO GUARANTEE that they can get the modification approved. People who are behind can do this themselves for about 1/10th the expense if they know who to talk to and where to look.
I'm happy to do the regular stuff. |
Edited by - MichelleT on 02/19/2009 5:13:00 PM |
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Deborah Bond
Massachusetts
56 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2009 : 3:05:28 PM
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I did one of these in early December was paid very quickly BUT that being said I was VERY uneasy working with the gentleman. He was very talkative about a subject I did not want to get into...mainly his finances. He had filed bankruptsy in March, 2008 and had not paid ANY of his mortgage payments or any part of them since. And could not understand why he was in forclosure proceedings. He happily handed me the pre dated checks and my thought was "why the hell did he not just pay the mortgage with these". I do not intend to do another, I just felt too uncomfortable and the guy could not write to save his life...asked me to write what he dictated when he noticed me taking notes in case I was questioned on what he wrote. I did, and informed the company that he dictated and I wrote or I would have been there till 3AM and they still would not have been able to read it. BUT if 21st Century Legal calls again...opps sorry busy!
Deborah |
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c21donj
Indiana
2 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2009 : 05:12:19 AM
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| Are we notaries or attorneys? My experience with 21st Century has been completely positive. My understanding is that we are hired to simply help homeowners to complete paperwork and sign where necessary, collect the checks, and forward to 21st Century. 21st Century is paying me to offer their client a more personal level of service than simply sending the paperwork directly to the customer. 21st Century Legal Services is a law firm. Do notaries have any professional legal qualification pertaining to loan modifications? Unless you have had a personal experience modifying your own loan through 21st Century, I don't believe you even have the right to have an opinion! The media says that hundreds of thousands of people are struggling to make their house payments. My understanding is that 21st Century Legal Services is helping thousands of people to secure a more affordable 4% interest 30 year fixed payment regardless of credit or equity. After my positive experiences with the company, I just signed up as a client too! |
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